which is law of the land, being enacted in over 25 states. is he a serious political figure, a serious policy figure in republican circles? >> he is a serious political figure and a serious policy figure in the republican party, but the governor's criticism about the budget is spot on. its formulations are not based in reality. obama care has been validated by the court, it was validated in the last election, it is the law of the land. i think that it is important for republicans to communicate clearly to the country about the costs and future of the interest payments on out of control spending, that's an absolute threat to our future prosperity. we're going to have to deal with that as a country. when you put forward the plans and proposals, particularly when you're the minority party, particularly when you're out of power, it ought to be a document that's grounded in reality, in truth telling to the american people. >> reality and truth telling, endangered species in some circles. steve schmidt and howard dean, thank you both for joining me